Sean Fidler Soaring

 

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I still have a couple if you want. American too.

Raul, I would be interested in 1 of each. give me details

The US proposal to the IGC suggesting the FAI modify its scoring formula "to be more like the US Rules scoring formula" (under the guise of "reducing gaggling") is FAR, FAR from being "accepted". Such statements are categorically false and highly misleading.

I'm happy to hear that this falsehood has been corrected in the troll pit anonymous forum. Amazing. Thank you.

See correction photo or follow the link below...
groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/IM_tY_Y1RCM

The US "delegation" has made MANY proposals and virtually all of them have been rejected by the IGC. Acceptance is a good sign for US Rule supporters but this "acceptance" is also simply a parliamentary term and only means that the proposal has been adopted for a mandatory period of open debate (and, of course, the inevitable counter-responses from other country IGC delegations). Therefore the term "acceptance" is a very poor description of the status of the proposal. A fantasy really. Actual proposal ratification and "true adoption of the proposal" is a 3-year IGC process and is statistically unlikely based on recent history.

The Europeans are wary of US rule proposals. They already have taken the bold action to immediately and dramatically reduce the size of the WGC gaggles by roughly half in several major classes. How? They will now accept only one pilot per country! This will, I think, be the most effective means of reducing follow the leader tactics. This was my verbatim recommendation in Benalla. It's just too many damn sailplanes in the air at one time. It's silly!

The irony is that the US Rules (See the 2018 18m Nationals flight traces for example) does not reduce gaggles in the slightest. If anything US gaggles are as large or larger. The US starting rules actually seem to increase gaggles. US rule MATs obviously serve mainly to reform the gaggle at each US HAT "mini turn area" (4 miles optional at each) and the fact that the MAT is essentially just another timed area task (often with OLC at the end) which results in most pilots starting (and therefore finishing) at roughly the same time.

SGP does a pretty good job of breaking the group up into very small manageable groups and often many solo "breakaway" efforts.

I also love the idea of set start windows (say every 15 minutes). This was discussed in Benalla as well. Formulas won't break up gaggles (leeching). We need something more direct and powerful.

Just one measly opinion,

Sean

On Sunday, 20 May 2018 02:47:53 UTC+3, Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thanks for the many considered responses here that came from competition pilots. It is good to know that the US proposal to FAI was accepted. After reading the material that Ron Gleason linked, it’s pretty obvious that the US improved scoring method will reduce the gaggle incentive that is so evident at the WGC level.

IGC gave another year for US proposal because US delegates wanted to iron out problems with devaluation scheme. It was not accepted, that will take another 2 years minimum.

After discussing the proposal with WGC pilots we concluded that new formula will change nothing and incentive to fly solo is just not there. starting rules don't reduce gaggles, they likely increase them.
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The US proposal to the IGC suggesting the FAI modify its scoring formula to be more like the US Rules scoring formula (under the guise of reducing gaggling) is FAR, FAR from being accepted.  Such statements are categorically false and highly misleading.

Im happy to hear that this falsehood has been corrected in the troll pit anonymous forum.  Amazing. Thank you.

See correction photo or follow the link below...
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/IM_tY_Y1RCM

The US delegation has made MANY proposals and virtually all of them have been rejected by the IGC.  Acceptance is a good sign for US Rule supporters but this acceptance is also simply a parliamentary term and only means that the proposal has been adopted for a mandatory period of open debate (and, of course, the inevitable counter-responses from other country IGC delegations).  Therefore the term acceptance is a very poor description of the status of the proposal.  A fantasy really.   Actual proposal ratification and true adoption of the proposal is a 3-year IGC process and is statistically unlikely based on recent history.  

The Europeans are wary of US rule proposals.  They already have taken the bold action to immediately and dramatically reduce the size of the WGC gaggles by roughly half in several major classes.  How?  They will now accept only one pilot per country!  This will, I think, be the most effective means of reducing follow the leader tactics.  This was my verbatim recommendation in Benalla.  Its just too many damn sailplanes in the air at one time.  Its silly!

The irony is that the US Rules (See the 2018 18m Nationals flight traces for example) does not reduce gaggles in the slightest.  If anything US gaggles are as large or larger.  The US  starting rules actually seem to increase gaggles.  US rule MATs obviously serve mainly to reform the gaggle at each US HAT mini turn area (4 miles optional at each) and the fact that the MAT is essentially just another timed area task (often with OLC at the end) which results in most pilots starting (and therefore finishing) at roughly the same time.

SGP does a pretty good job of breaking the group up into very small manageable groups and often many solo breakaway efforts.

I also love the idea of set start windows (say every 15 minutes).  This was discussed in Benalla as well.  Formulas wont break up gaggles (leeching).  We need something more direct and powerful.

Just one measly opinion,

Sean

On Sunday, 20 May 2018 02:47:53 UTC+3, Steve Koerner  wrote: 
> Thanks for the many considered responses here that came from competition pilots.  It is good to know that the US proposal to FAI was accepted. After reading the material that Ron Gleason linked, it’s pretty obvious that the US improved scoring method will reduce the gaggle incentive that is so evident at the WGC level. 

IGC gave another year for US proposal because US delegates wanted to iron out problems with devaluation scheme. It was not accepted, that will take another 2 years minimum. 

After discussing the proposal with WGC pilots we concluded that new formula will change nothing and incentive to fly solo is just not there.  starting rules dont reduce gaggles, they likely increase them.

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Please link or referee to "the reduction to half at WGC decision". I can not see this in the latest IGC plenary minutes of meeting.

Last summer I heard a few arguments that smaller classes will lead to one big gaggke rather than a couple smaller ones. More gliders, more markers, less need for one furball.

Surprise! Nothing changes! As usual...

The FAI has adopted designated start times this year and can choose to use them. Will be interesting to see in Poland and CZ if they use it and how it works out. Intervals can be 10, 20, 30 minutes apart. Will this just force gaggles of those start groups? Will it unfairly affect competitors? In Lithuania, 15 minutes on some days made a huge difference in speed or even making it around the task.

I agree. The designated start window/time idea is imperfect but is also a concrete rule that will ultimately force (as you say) either A) beginning said leeching before the start (this already happens in the US Rules) to ensure leaving in the same window as the other key competitors or B) a real separation between at least some groups of pilots. It is not my belief that a simple pure sailplane race is flawed because of a gaggle. Gaggles result from all sailplane competition. Especially the US MAT which is essentially a gaggle engine with OLC at the end. Gaggles have always existed in sailplane competition. And they always will with the exception of OLC. This is where the US rules should really go. They should stop playing around and do free distance. Funny thing is they'll still have gaggles! In certain competition formats, such as SGP, the scoring incentives truly favor breaking away and to podium one must learn to fly fast independently. In traditional FAI and US experimental competition, the incentive is clearly not to win each day but to be as close as possible to the winner while taking the minimum risk. This incentivizes gaggles enormously! So these old formats and 1000 pt scoring methodologies are deeply flawed in general if gaggles are indeed a menace! The relatively small tweaks between FAI and US rules scoring formulas are essentially useless in reducing gsggles (in meaningfully competitive events) and still result in virtually the same pilot behaviors. Hence the experiment has failed and US rules result in huge manpower overhead with zero measurable value (actually quite negative). Do US rules increase participation, are they safer, result in fewer landouts, are they easier to manage, easier to score, do they build better pilot skills, create better US team performance, etc.? No. I still strongly support simple, unified rules which do not try to "plan" behaviors like an economist tries to plan an economy...

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3 days ago

Sean’s Soaring Page

This morning I went on BBC Lincolnshire to talk about gliding, women in gliding an the women world's. It was easier than I thought. So ladies get in contact with your local radio station, offer them a flight at your club and let's hear you on air.
This was quite along chat. 1hr 13min into the pod cast.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p064n5ft
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